The fact that human beings were made in the very image and likeness of God (Gen. 1:26-27) should suggest, to those who contemplate issues seriously, that we are more than mere temporal creatures passing through time toward oblivion. Let’s take a look. The Smoke of Their Torment Will Rise Forever And Ever – Revelation 14:11. All articles are Evangelical in nature and not pertaining to any specific denomination. Forbidden Theology. I can understand how a reader, uninformed about the background of this verse, might think of eternal, conscious torment. Keep note of this, we will address this shortly. The Old Testament.A study of God's major judgments (e.g., the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah) shows that the Old Testament focuses on premature death when dealing with the fate of the ungodly, not on life after death. Additionally, and curiously enough, in the King James Bible they translate eis aion aion (meaning – “unto the ages of the ages”) as forever and ever. Each of the other two theories, fully taught, says hell exists and people will be punished in it. They are traits which build up the total truth of God’s nature. 14:10–11). Of course it would. Norman Geisler, a staunch adherent of eternal torment, objects to this practice of using torment and torture interchangeably. God is holy, righteous, and good. Eternal Conscious Torment. ... Jesus claimed its the place with eternal torment, so He is right, and you are wrong! In hell passages, it is claimed, eternal means only pertaining to “the age to come” and not “everlasting.” It is true that in the New Testament, eternal means “agelong,” with … Given the Old Testament’s emphasis on … It is also called traditionalism because it is the church’s traditional view. Now, did King David mean to suggest that because God’s years are throughout all generations, that such a thing LIMITS God? It is an eternal punishment. So I'm pretty sure the eternal conscious torment taught by Jesus (Matthew 25:46) contradicts the sense of God's justice in the OT, and you can hardly blame a skeptic for using the earliest revelation as the gold standard by which to judge the later revelation. God is love, 1 John 4:16. It is His nature; there is no anger or fury in love; fury is not in me, Isa. And other than the King James Versions, all modern Bibles do not include hell in the Old Testament at all! Why does Mr. Geisler have such a problem with the word “torture” as a descriptive term for his belief in never-ending conscious torment? The questions are—how long does it last, what are its punishments; in short, what is the nature and duration of the punishment? Doesn’t sound too much like endless torture, does it? View most clearly supported by Jesus (to make Jesus support other views, considerable pleading to a kind of fundamentalist harmony within the scripture to dampen Jesus' own statements is necessary.) Since the concept of “agelong” involves a beginning and an end, this would technically have the concept of being temporary. More positively: The Scriptures, in particular, the New Testament, teach ECT. Let’s first see some examples of better translations that don’t erroneously translate “eternal” into this verse: The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, 1976, “And these shall go away into age-abiding *correction, but the righteous into **age-abiding life.”, The twentieth Century New Testament, 1900, “And these last will go away ‘into onian punishment, but the righteous ‘into onian life.”, “And these will depart into age-continuing correction, but the righteous, into age-continuing life.”, “And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life.”, The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958, “And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”, “And these will go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”, The New Testament, A New Translation, 1980, “Then they will begin to serve a new period of suffering; but God’s faithful will enter upon their heavenly life.”, And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”, “And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life.”. Obviously Geisler has a problem with the word “torture” being used to describe his belief in the never-ending conscious misery of unredeemed people. Think of it like a mortgage—at some point, you pay it off and satisfy the debt. Eternal torment does not correspond with the nature of God. I will now quote the following from Merciful Truth: The reason that aionios was translated “everlasting” is largely due to a false assumption. But, the true meaning of aion does not, because ages do multiply unto themselves. Because of the simple clarity of these verses, the great majority of Christians throughout history have accepted that the teaching of the Bible is that Hell is eternal, conscious torment. How much more so the prospect of subjecting a person to everlasting fiery conscious torment? He believed “eternal punishment or chastisement was simply the punishment or correction that pertained to eternity. Required fields are marked *. Everlasting conscious torment has its advocates, though statistically the evidence is far heavier on the side of ultimate extinction. Just because aionios is applied to God does not mean “aionios” automatically means “eternal.” God can pertain to the ages, and also be immortal, and the scriptures testify to both as you will see. Some recent writers such as Anglican layman C. S. Lewis [86] and J.P. Moreland [87] have cast hell in terms of "eternal separation" from God. See for yourself by simply looking up these texts in both versions: Matthew 8:29, Mark 5:7 and Revelation 9:5. Some rightly reason that it cannot keep this meaning if it is to be translated everlasting. Annihilationism, by contrast, is the view that God will exterminate the wicked in hell. This is utter nonsense and completely unbiblical. It is so unlike who He wants us to be. That may not be what it takes for a rock to exist, but a rock doesn't feel pain, either. Is punishment “eternal”? His CT Interviewer, Mark Galli, who himself has written on the topic affirmed that he too was agnostic after looking at the evidence. However, the former two have now largely fallen out of favour, and even across the thousands of denominations of Christianity the ECT view has taken an extremely dominant position. So I'm pretty sure the eternal conscious torment taught by Jesus (Matthew 25:46) contradicts the sense of God's justice in the OT, and you can hardly blame a skeptic for using the earliest revelation as the gold standard by which to judge the later revelation. But, when another Christian claims that such a thing denies God’s immorality, he is committing the error of “Affirming a Disjunct.” Here is how you know: 1 Timothy 1:17 – Now unto the King eternal (aion), immortal (aphthartos), invisible (aoratos), the only wise God, be honor and glory forever and ever (eis aion aion). As far as I can make out, there are only two passages in the Bible that explicitly mention eternal torment as a punishment. The answer to both questions is obvious and offers proof that the idea of eternal torment is indeed a profoundly disturbing concept which naturally offends our God-given moral and judicial instincts: The only way Geisler and like-minded people can accept this idea and live with themselves is by convincing themselves that their good, loving God is not the one carrying out or authorizing this sadistic sentence. This is the opposite of eternal life in hell. The word “aionios” doesn’t mean any of those things either. You may have noticed in HELL KNOW that I regularly refer to the view of eternal torment as eternal torture. Instead, they should have reasoned that kolasis was corrective, therefore eonian cannot be endless.”. Eternal Punishment. This destruction is sometimes seen as accomplished by fire, and sometimes it is preceded by a period of conscious anguish and suffering before it is consummated in eternal … They are both true. By that I mean, hell is not a place where people who sin and disbelieve are sent to be punished and tortured. What has compelled him to create his own personal and unbiblical definition for “torment” (that it is only self-inflicted)? From what I've read, Purgatorial Universalism, Annihilationism, and Eternal Conscious Torment were taught in the early Church. Because, though God could theoretically torture someone for all eternity, how could he correct someone for all eternity? In fact, when translated correctly, the Bible actually shows that the punishment for sin is experienced in a limited duration and for the purpose of restoration! Yet despite the complete silence in the Hebrew Scriptures about eternal conscious torment in hell, people today continue to hold to the doctrine, primarily because they believe it is taught in the New Testament. It is that of “eternal conscious torment” for all those who do not “accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior” in this life. But for Christians to ascribe such activity to the Creator of all mankind is simply terribly misguided thinking.”, I have read and agree to the terms & conditions. The former, minimal confession would be consistent with eternal conscious torment, annihilationism and universal reconciliation, but Keller (inconsistently) limits his apologetic defense to the first of these three views. If a cat is both fuzzy and gray, affirming that the cat is gray does not deny the fuzziness. As much as i would like it to be annihilation also, i cannot believe it since scripture is clear otherwise, and if i wanted to believe that eternal didnt mean it with the torment, i would also have to believe that life is not eternal … Therefore, a better understanding of “aionion” means pertaining to an aion/age. Everlasting is itself wrong, so they change kolasis to correspond with the wrong translation punishment, making both wrong. Therefore everlasting destruction is not self-inflicted at all; it is executed by God himself as the just consequences for a person’s bad choices ( Matthew 10:28 , 2 Thessalonians 1:9 & James 4:12 ). 6. It’s the verse that fire-and-brimstone pastors love, but the verse that squashes the hopes of those who are hoping in their hearts, that surely God has a better plan for the universe. Guess what? He is God of both. My thesis is both positive and negative. Neither. Now let’s address the common misconception: “But if you believe Christians will have eternal life, then “aionion” has to mean eternal, which then forces you to admit that punishment is also eternal since the same Greek word is used to describe both.”. Actually hellfire doctrine is in the scriptures, but eternal conscious torment is not. So, the Beast’s “destruction” is everlasting torment in the lake of fire. And, God’s judgment also pertains to the ages. So how on earth did “agelong” and “eternal” – two diametrically opposing concepts – get BOTH placed as possible definitions for the same word?! You’re telling me that God didn’t even mention ONCE for thousands of years about this place called hell? So, if “aion” means “age/eon”, and “aionion” is simply the adjective form of “aion“, following basic rules of language, we would have to conclude that the adjective form can only mean something that pertains to its noun. What are the best scriptural arguments for an eternal hell? Buried deep within our consciousness – in our subconscious mind – is this part of God that we do not like. He created the aions/ages to reveal his plan to the Israelites through their prophets of ages past (Hebrews 1:1-2). How so? God is big, even bigger than the universe, but is He limited to being big? I'm guessing you may have a different definition of "soul" than I do. In this post, I want to summarize the best arguments for eternal conscious torment (ECT)—the traditional view of hell where the wicked will experience never-ending punishment. ... Hell is the LOF, as the LOF is the place of eternal punishment, which is the definition of hell. The erroneous teaching of “eternal conscious torment” has an effect upon the conscience of the believer. No verse in the Bible gives an expository description of what hell is or what it's about. Parents and clergy have used it as a threat to pull offenders back into line, while others have even considered it comforting that the “bad guys” will get the justice they deserve in the end. No … One of the disagreements between the two views is over the meaning of death.. However, we do see that “aionion” is used to describe God himself, who is certainly not temporary – which is a large contributing factor in the confusion. The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment. Now for the word “eternal”, which comes from the Greek word “aionion/aionios“: Strong’s 166: Notice how it says the definition could be “agelong” or “eternal”. A moral objection to eternal conscious torment (ECT) is that if sinners are tormented in hell for all eternity (or, to be more precise, the lake of fire), then God’s justice is never satisfied. According to normal language, a person needs some kind of life in order to exist. Tartaro One other words used for hell, Tartaro, or Tartarus in English, from Greek Myth. The reason the bible doesn’t speak in such a ludicrous way is simply because this doctrine of eternal conscious torment in not a biblical teaching. Your email address will not be published. Where do the annihilationists get it wrong? Both agelong and eternal are wrong. 2:4). Hell and hellfire, lake of fire is throughout the whole of scripture. This thread is archived. The reason I use the word “torture” to describe this belief is to expose it for what it really is. Answering Fundamentalism, Greek Word Study, Universal Salvation/Reconciliation, 40 Questions against traditional Christianity and the doctrine of Hell, Answering Atheism, Answering Fundamentalism, Universal Salvation/Reconciliation, 100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind, Hell is NOT in the Bible, it is a MISTRANSLATION, Answering Fundamentalism, Greek Word Study, Helpful Videos, Universal Salvation/Reconciliation, without beginning or end, lasting forever, outside of time, Quotes by Early Church Fathers on Universalism, He has glory and honor unto the ages of the ages (eis aion aion), Aion means “age”, and can also suggest a world associated with that age (eg Industrial Age, Industrial World), God is “aionios” which means God pertains to the ages. Here’s why. I’ve been exploring the debate between annihilationism and eternal conscious torment (ECT) in a series of blog posts. Few passages from the Old Testament are cited as evidence that hell is a place of eternal torment. Regardless of what “destroy” really means — whether literal destruction or eternal torment — the fact is that it is God Himself who is doing the destroying (or authorizing the destroying). None. In an interview a few years ago he stated, "My description is neither an annihilationist view nor an eternal conscious torment view." Close. Why? This is known as the eternal conscious torment (ECT) view. It’s absolutely ludicrous therefore to force the adjective form of “aion” to then mean “eternal”. ... We have already seen John define that fire as eternal conscious punishment in the lake of fire for the devil (Rev. These Christians point to biblical references to eternal punishment, as well as eternal elements of this punishment, such as the unquenchable fire, the everlasting shame, the "worm" that never dies, and the smoke that rises forever, as consistent with the traditional doctrine of eternal, conscious torment of the non-believers or sinners in hell. Eternal Conscious Torment. In this one scripture, not only does Paul affirm that God is of the age (aion), he also confirms that God has glory and honor “unto the ages of the ages,” just as King David also said that “God’s years are throughout all generations.“. The reason the bible doesn’t speak in such a ludicrous way is simply because this doctrine of eternal conscious torment in not a biblical teaching. Posted by. It should be noted that even if the word “aionios” actually could mean “eternal,” in some contexts, as far as Matthew 25:46 is concerned, the most one could make of the phrase is “correction or chastening pertaining to eternity.” This is how scholars like William Barclay, who believed in universal salvation dealt with this word. Second, there is the view of Annihilationism which is sometimes referred to as “Conditional Immortality.” In his recent book arguing for universalism, David Bentley Hart explains why he abhors the doctrine of hell as eternal conscious torment. Let’s now return to Keller’s key definition: Daniel 12:2 and “Eternal Contempt” 1 Adapted From The Bible Teaches Annihilationism by Joseph Dear, Section XX. Subjecting a person to torment is torture. The position which I will defend in this essay is what is sometimes referred to as the traditional, or eternal conscious torment, position (hereafter, ECT). “Aion” would have to mean something similar to “eternity” in order for its adjective form to be “eternal” – but instead, we clearly see throughout scripture that “aion” means “age”. Before arguing for one meaning of death and against another, it is important to understand the opposing view. He is God of what He creates. One of these passages concerns the torment of fallen angels. 20:10). A moral objection to eternal conscious torment (ECT) is that if sinners are tormented in hell for all eternity (or, to be more precise, the lake of fire), then God’s justice is never satisfied. Knoch, brilliantly covers this concept in his book, All in All: “We protest against the translation of kolasis as “punishment.” Everywhere else in Greek this word denotes corrective chastisement, and is used of pruning. After death there is no longer any hope considered for them. It is that eternal conscious torment is not in those texts. Is not God also smaller than the tiniest atomic particle, able to see all things? Nowhere in the Bible is the soul said to be immortal. Because these verses are directly related to Matthew 18:9 and 5:29-100, all six references are thus irrelevant concerning eternal conscious torment. The problem with the idea that eternal conscious torment does not benefit God or the one that God punishes is that it mistakenly assumes there must be a benefit to God and to those punished. No verse actually says that. The above passage, 2 Timothy 1:10, makes it plain that until Jesus was raised for our justification, the power of death was not destroyed and hence, immortality was not available to us—life was not available to us. The Most Destructive Doctrine — No, it is not “Hell”, No Mess is too Messy for Jesus, Including Suicide – In Memory of Jarrid Wilson, Answering Fundamentalism, Universal Salvation/Reconciliation. Richardson hopes to make a robust case for traditionalism / Eternal Conscious Torment {hereafter ECT} by arguing inductively from soul immortality, often referring to her clarion cry of Mt. Let’s be truthful and candid enough to call a spade a spade! See Matt. Second, sins of the damned can be eternal in that sinners continue to sin throughout eternity. (Hell-fire, or the lake of fire mentioned in Revelation, can be thought of as a place reserved for fallen angels. Also, consider the fact that the King James Version and the New International Version both use “torment” and “torture” interchangeably. Likewise, believers may have “the life of the ages” and also be promised a future immortality. All rights reserved. As to "eternal conscious torment", there are a lot of differing views on it. In this issue, Christians often commit a logical error called Affirming a Disjunct, which is to fallaciously claim that one distinction cancels out all other distinctions. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Eternal conscious torment) In Christian theology, Hell is the place or state into which, by God's definitive judgment, unrepentant sinners pass in the general judgment, or, as some Christians believe, immediately after death (particular judgment). Featured Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not? Nearly all the evidence provided for the doctrine of eternal torment in a fiery hell comes from the New Testament. By that I mean, hell is not a place where people who sin and disbelieve are sent to be punished and tortured. Dogmatizing About Eternal Conscience Torment in Hell Kurt Simmons . Does the indwelling life of Christ NOT pertain to the ages? Matthew 25:46 is the poster child verse for those who believe in eternal conscious torment in hell. Of course it does. If God did not relate to the ages, how could we ever know Him? I'm guessing you may have a different definition of "soul" than I do. It also says he died for the whole world (1 John 2:2). from Gustave Doré's (1832-1883) illustrations of Dante's Inferno I do not believe that the Bible actually teaches that hell is a place of eternal conscious torment. Let’s recap the facts we’ve already discussed: Why should anyone assume that such facts would limit God? Frankly, I don't think any definition of hell makes much sense when funneled through our human reason. First, since “aionion” is an adjective, its necessary to understand the noun that it’s originally derived from, which is the Greek word “aion“: Strong’s 165: As you can see, it says “aion” means “a space of time, an age”, or a synonym word we could use is “eon“. Not one of those passages says hell is eternal conscious torment. Pharisees weren't being warned of Eternal Conscious Torment. King David said this: Psalm 102:24 – I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. Which trait cancels out the other? 25:41 and 2 Pet. If it is literally a punishment that they cannot return from, then the punishment will remain in effect. Eternal conscious punishment is the view that the wicked will suffer the pains of hell forever. Again, with the understanding that the definition of “correction” means “to make right”, don’t you think an all-powerful God attempting to correct someone would eventually produce the level of righteousness that He desires in that person? Divinely instituted penalty of endless suffering, including banishment from God's blessed presence. The word aionios neither means “infinite” OR “temporary.” Instead, it means “PERTAINING to the aions/ages.” Does God NOT pertain to the ages? Tartaro:Definition 1. share. Mark 9:45-46 I have no idea where Mr. Geisler got this definition for torment (that it is always self-inflicted), but it certainly wasn’t from the Bible. Your email address will not be published. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” This continues the theme of totally destroyed– there’s not a trace of the wicked. Therefore, eternal conscious torment is not true, since God is not immoral. Let’s break it down. After death there is no longer any hope considered for them. All four traits apply to him. He continues in the interview to explain that while he went back and strengthened the chapter on the eternal conscious torment of the damned, after studying the topic he is really agnostic. God wills us to love our enemies, who abuse, wrong, and hate us; much more will God love his enemies, Luke 6:35. Featured Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not? Hart: This is actually a merciful action on God’s part. 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